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Gas Wars No More: Binghamton University Students Engage on Fracking

Vic FurmanVictor Furman
Upstate New York Landowner Shale Gas Activist

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It was “gas wars no more” at Binghamton University where students engaged in a civil discussion about energy and civil engagement. Vic Furman was there.

This past week, another board member of the Joint Landowners Coalition of NY and I  both received an invitation to Binghamton University to speak about our experiences in community civil engagement. We talked with approximately 40 students who attended the discussion.

Not knowing what to expect, I went unprepared; no written material and only a brown jug of water marked “Dimock, Pa.” It was a wise decision.

Binghamton University

I can only speak for myself and not my fellow JLCNY member, but the interaction and questions by geology and environmental second year students was beautiful.  Why? because it was honest and they prepared themselves with pre-written questions about Indian Point nuclear power,  solar, wind and fossil fuels, all of which I attempted to answer with upmost honesty even as they fact checked me on their tablets. Here is a list of questions I was asked with my given answers:

What is your position on nuclear energy? 

The student who asked this question was a Westchester County resident, where Indian Point is located.

I said I was against it, citing facts on the Fukushima and Chernobyl disasters as well as New York State’s own Indian Point Nuclear Station, which has been called a “disaster waiting to happen.” 

I went on to explain that nuclear rods no longer in use, are encased in cement and buried but are still deadly with radiation for up to 100,000 years. We discussed the fact most, if not all nuclear power plants in the United States are built on natural faults and many were already past their age limits—past due for shut down. I explained that Indian Point has 2 3 story high water intake/output systems used to cool the reactors that kill hundreds of thousands of planktons and fish per year, warming waters and causing early spawning and algae plumes.

Are you for or against clean energy such as solar and wind?

This question came from a student studying Environmental Sciences and I answered that I am in favor of all energy, stating what I am against is people pushing the narrative that we are ready for it now, as if the “The leave it in the ground movement” had any credibility. I explained that if the science of clean energy made economic sense, then the market would demand it and pay for the infrastructure to switch; that, in comparison to fossil fuels, solar industry subsidies are off the charts in comparison.

I also brought up Germany, their remarkable push towards renewables and now the implosion of that program with Germans burning more coal than ever, brown coal no less. The reason for the decline is the high cost of clean energy, which is three times higher then fossil fuels, making it impossible for the factories demanding great amounts of energy, to compete in the world market. The result has been more dirty coal plants to meet their electic needs.

Why were New York landowners denied the access to their property rights? What about the state’s fracking ban?

I explained that we were not actually denied our property rights. Our crafty Governor Cuomo was ether smart or well-advised not to explicitly ban gas drilling, but to place an extended moratorium under the guise the process of well drilling and high volume hydraulic fracturing was still being studied by the state. I noted that, theoretically, he could pursue future presidential ambitions without being called anti-fossil fuel because he never actually banned drilling. He could play both sides of the fence; anti in New York and neutral elsewhere. This would be an important for a politician running in over 30 states where fracking is permitted and being anti-fossil fuel would be a detriment to getting him elected president.

How, if that’s the case, did Cuomo get away with an extended moratorium? 

I answered that gas drilling, if allowed, would happen only in Upstate New York and the majority of the state’s population was in New York City where the benefits, though huge, are not appreciated because they’re indirect.  I explained it was simply a matter of demographics, with votes being concentrated in the City among people largely unaware of how energy is produced.

I went on to explain that many peer reviewed studies were paid for by billion dollar anti-fossil fuel endowments such as the Park Foundation, the Rockefellers foundations and others, who have paid millions upon millions to fight against the upstate famer, already at an economic disadvantage. The anti-gas movement got many other millions from similar  sources, including Hollywood actors who bragged about their Facebook followings and the power it gave them.

It was. I said, a case of farmers and landowners from Upstate New York fighting against elitists with far more money than they had, while the antis called themselves a grass roots movement. I pointed out the financial roots reached all the way to Russia in some cases. I explained how false fears and misinformation was used against us.  Who wouldn’t be afraid of wide spread water pollution, low birth weights, two headed sheep and air so thick you could cut it with a knife, after all? These were the false fears—the lies—being spread to honest people who heard them in mass quantity, in concentrated cities (targeted) by the elitist funded fear machines such as NYRAD, “New York residents Against Drilling” and other well paid activist groups.

I recommended they go online and watch two films in order; first Gasland funded by the foundations against fracking and then Fracknation funded by citizens and landowners. I encouraged them to read the transcript of the Dimock family lawsuit against Cabot Oil and Gas and, especially, the testimony of ” Anthony Ingraffea” a loud Cornell University Professor entangled with the Park Foundation.

I told the students Ingraffea had taught rock fracturing for 30 years and had become an activist who now made all sorts of claims unrelated to his own expertise. I noted he had testified, under oath, that he could not back up much of what he had been telling others about hydraulic fracturing. I also informed the students a judgment of $4 million in favor of the Ely family had been set aside because it wasn’t warranted and no attempt was made to re-litigate the matter, the case having been so poor.

Now, understand that these students were 16 years old or so when all this was going on and now four years later they were second year college students who before this, had no Idea or very little at least, about this highly one-sided political debate. To me, their reaction to all this was rewarding, as they seemed to understand money and fear often dictate the direction of civic engagement. My HooYah moment came at the end of the second presentation, when a geology student said—to all of us—that fracking was a subject discussed in his class, and it was agreed it was impossible for frack fluid to flow against gravity and migrate through thousands of feet of solid rock.

What about that “Brown Water Jug” there in front of you?

“Glad you asked” I replied. In 2009, Craig Sautner of Dimock Pennsylvania, who then lived on Carter Road claimed his water well was pollted with hundreds of chemicals by Cabot Oil and Gas when they fracked a well near his property. The problem with that claim was that no fracking had yet been done.

Binghamton University

What happened was the driller hit a shallow pocket of biogenic gas a few hundred feet below the topsoil, agitating the water table and causing the sediments in the aquifer to be stirred up. Much like the way a blender mixes a margarita, the water turned brow. It only lasted a few days and Mr Sautner couldn’t produce the brown water for the TV cameras when asked.

The Pennsylvania DEP and EPA tested his well for fracking chemicals and found none, though admitting there were high levels of the gas in his well. As it turns out this area in the Northeast has been known for centuries—long before the first gas well was drilled—for the water having high volume of gas, so high it allowed people to light their water on fire. The brown jug is nothing more the a prop used by litigants in lawsuits. It was never seized or tested by New York or any state agency, despite pleas from pro-gas landowners, for testing and chemical analysis.

Such was the discussion at Binghamton University. It was extremely rewarding; a civil discussion on the merits indicating to me the younger generation is open-minded on these issues and not so much interested in the battle as the truth. Simply put, it is “gas wars no more” for them. Bravo!

Editor’s Note: I discovered, subsequent to the posting of this article from Vic and after 10 comments from an individual supposedly named Dan Harwig, that Dan uses the same IP address as Jan Lemas, who previously pretended for the longest time to be “Hope Forpeace.” We documented her real name here back in December and told her she was welcome to continue to comment, but only under her real name.

Instead, she either decided to pretend she was now Dan Harwig or got him to run interference for her friends Ray Kemble and Vera Scroggins — our friend Vic Furman having got under her skin that much. I have informed Jan Lemas the game is up unless, using her real name, she wants to share with us Ray’s unedited latest DEP and ATSDR results, of course. Dan Harwig, assuming he exists, is also welcome to provide those results, given that he seems to quote from them. Meanwhile, Vic Furman chalks up another one!

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130 thoughts on “Gas Wars No More: Binghamton University Students Engage on Fracking

    • I suggest you read the posting again Ms. Scroggins, pay and pay close attention to what you read.

      “who was your contact and group at BU where the discussion happened?”

      Answered: questions by geology and environmental second year students, a student studying Environmental Sciences, a geology student, etc.

      “and why wasn’t our side represented?”

      Answered: Mr. Furman and an associate “both received an invitation to Binghamton University to speak”, “where students engaged in a civil discussion about energy and civil engagement”, Your side has a well know and publicized history of being unable to act civilly, I am sure these students have seen enough of that over the years.

      “sounds like a one-sided discussion…”

      Answered: it must suck to not have been included in this, too bad.

      • On top of that it wasn’t a debate it was an educational forum of fact, not a presentation of fiction which obviously would have disqualified Vera

        • Isn’t leaving out the 4 Cabot Consent Orders, the state of Pennsylvania’s lawsuit against Cabot, the fact that there were dozens of victims, the ASTDR’s findings and the fact that predrill tests showed the methane was NOT already in the aquifer ..

          NOT honest?

          • There are piles of evidence of methane in the aquifer before drilling was ever even dreamed of in Susquehanna County, starting with the ability to light Salt Springs on fire.

          • Odd, Mr.s Shepstone, your comment featured no reply button.

            As I said, all the of DImock victims has predrill testing that showed no hydrocarbons.

            Did you know that or understand why that proves your argument false? After all of these years, YOU ALSO call these real victims liars? ARE YOU aware of the of data showing otherwise? Do you run this blog?

      • ““who was your contact and group at BU where the discussion happened?”

        Answered: questions by geology and environmental second year students, a student studying Environmental Sciences, a geology student, etc.”

        ?? How does that answer WHO was the contact?

        As a former DEP employee what did you think of Mr. Furman’s description of the Dimockwater pollution case?

          • Funny how the people one asked questions of don’t reply – but others reply instead.

            I’d like to hear an answer to that from Mr. Cooley: “As a former DEP employee what did you think of Mr. Furman’s description of the Dimockwater pollution case?”

          • Jan,

            I told you weren’t allowed to comment here unless you used your real name. You presented yourself falsely as Hope Forpeace and now you’re pretending to be “Dan Harwig.” For the last time, you are not permitted to comment here any longer under false pretenses. Moreover, if you are trying to run interference for Vera or Ray Kemble, why don’t you simply produce the DEP and ATSDR data on Ray’s well, for example? Let’s see it. Show us. Otherwise, get off this blog.

        • “Dan Harwig”: you seem to be in a lather. Are you and Vera now just coasting along spending all that money you’ve been paid all these years by the Park Foundation and other huge foundations and have become lazy and rather sloth? If you thought you were going to just sit back and NY farmers and landowners were going to let Cuomo steal their mineral rights, guess you guessed wrong.

          • Frank,

            “Dan” appears, if the fact they have the same IP numbers is any indication, to be Jan Lemas. See my editor’s note added at the bottom of the post. She’s not rich but she sings the gentry class tune and is, you might say, one of their “useful idiots,” although I hasten to add she’s quite clever, just not clever enough to make her arguments under her own name or not use the same IP address when she’s running interference for Vera, Ray and the gang.

    • Vera: Looks like Mr. Furman really struck a nerve, eh? You and your ilk probably thought, through a combination of complacency, arrogance, and the stoppage of all those millions of dollars from the Park, Heinz, William Penn, Tides, and other billionaire foundations, that the JLCNY was dead and buried. Binghamton University today and who knows where down the road? Your lies and subterfuge are going to be exposed to the light of day. We will have our mineral rights back in NY despite your puppet named Cuomo.

      • Was it deceptive for me to make tea in a water jug and write Dimock PA on it… no more deceptive then it was for the anti in Philadelphia who did representing it as real well water, but left it behind when she got escorted out if the hearing for dis orderly contact and it was discovered to be ice tea. Vera accuses me of having a bad memory, or just being a flat out liar! I say if a man pets a cat and the cat swipes at his hand he may forget that, but if that same man pets a lion and that lion swats his hand he will not forget that! I may get dates messed up but my involvement has been a decade plus so that’s somewhat excusable. I remember reading on Craig’s Sautners final post as he was signing a non disclosure agreement, “something he promised not to do ” a post from Craig Stevens saying (don’t worry about the Brown water jug, I will carry it for you). A lot of things have been done and said not recorded. For those of us who had our rights stolen by anti gas activist we will never forget the harm you did to our children and our families, NEVER

  1. Great overview. NY landowners need opportunity to show the successes in PA, OH and elsewhere in natural gas extraction and this bountiful paleo-solar energy supply. However, one needs to be careful when critical of nuclear power. Nuclear energy currently provides 60% of carbon emissions-free energy in the United States and is a vital component to domestic and global carbon-reduction goals, and has the lowest mortality per KwH generated. Under 100 people died at Chernobly and no one died at Fukushima nor TMI. Indian Point has an exemplary safety record and provides key amounts of baseload electricity.

    • Did you think his description of he Dimock water pollution case (it’s people lying to get court payouts) was accurate?

      • Do you think the fact that the accusation of the Brown water jug carried by Mark Ruffalo was never tested a fair and accurate summation of the accusation, when the contents of that jug was never tested, never seized for testing, and couldn’t be reproduced for the news cameras visiting the alleged source.

        • I was asking Jim his opinion. Thanks Mr. Furman, we are aware of yours. You teach that all the real victims in Dimock are just plain liars, is that not correct?

          Real, valid water testing has somethiong called “chain of command” – you can’t just open an jug from moths before and do accurate testing.

          In your opinion it sounds like you would have wanted every victim to have each jug tested before you would accept it as valid? Does the extensive testing already done on the area’s water that found pollution (DEP, ATSDR, EPA) not satisfy you?

          Why not?

          • Actually, Dan, the data you reference doesn’t support you. Check out the video of EPA delivering Sautner the bad news.

          • I would have been happy with just one water test on any jug taken from the faucet of those complaining

          • Dan, Jan or whomever you are… you obviously are not familiar with the terms of analytical testing. “Chain of Custody” I believe you are looking for. Also, milk jugs are made of polyethylene and would degrade more quickly if they were filled with the contaminants you claim. Also, proper testing requires an amber jar with the proper preservatives and sealed with evidence tape. If you cannot produce such information any testing results are considred invalid.

  2. here is some info to correct Vic’s incorrect pronouncements:
    here is Baker 1 gas well was drilled in 2008 : and several others were drilled in 2008… in Dimock, Pa. in my county;

    and the info is here from marcellusgas.org

    Individual Well Data Reports Below:

    Well Name: BAKER 1 Show Wellsite on Map
    MGOrg ID: 6366 (DEP permit number: 115-20026)
    Municipality / County: Dimock township, Susquehanna county
    Well Development Started:
    PA PUC start date: Aug 11th, 2008
    PA PUC well status: Plugged OG Well
    PA PUC reported plugged: May 7th, 2010
    PA PUC plugging certified: Jul 9th, 2010
    Show all plugged wells in this county
    Well Production Values:
    Show/Hide Production Report
    Waste Report Values:
    Show/Hide Waste Report
    Inspections/Violations:
    28 Inspections have been performed
    3 Violations have been cited
    Show/Hide Inspections & Violations Report
    Gas Company: CABOT OIL AND GAS CORP.

    Drilling Map:
    $10 Claim as my FREE Drilling Map
    Retrieved: Sep. 1st, 2010 (1 pg)

    Complete Well Packet:
    $25 Add to Cart
    Retrieved: Sep. 1st, 2010 (23 pgs)
    Horizontal Well: No
    Fracturing Report: Fracturing Information is not available for this well.
    Notifications Sent by Gas Company to PA DEP There are no notifications available
    Permit Issued: Feb 6th, 2008 — Auth. ID: 708518
    Producing Formation: Marcellus
    Latitude | Longitude: 41.744566 | -75.879518

    and why don’t you bring actual water samples from Dimock or Lenox and other impacted areas ; not just fake water that you made….

    • Vera this doesn’t prove anything. Try again. Fake water ?? Why do the Dimock Brown Juggers refuse to have that water in that jug tested ?? Is it because it doesn’t contain chemicals used in fracking ?? The water in that area is known to contain high levels of iron, naturally, which causes brown water. Why isn’t anyone in Washington County claiming fracking turned their water brown ??

      • Stop over i was never in the news But Gave her a Jug after our water ! That was not fake news !
        Like all you Cabot Guys keep pushing so hard ,lol

        • Ken those piglets in your Facebook pictures look pretty healthy for someone who claims he has bad water. I thought you said you had to sell all your livestock because of the water. Also I don’t see any water tanks that you claim to have to pay to keep heated so they don’t freeze. And do you push your new pickup truck up your driveway like you claim the DEP does ??

          • I’ve been to Ken’s property in Dimock since the beginning of his water contamination several years ago and to now and he has three, water tanks from Cabot that get filled up in special, Cabot Sheds with water and he gets bottled water for drinking…

            You probably don’t want to hear that…it would throw off your illusions and denial of the harms of citizens from toxic corporations like Cabot and other gas companies..

            Fortunately, enough people believe us and come and see it and spread the information and photographs and videos to their communities all over the world….

        • yes, stop over Ken Morcum’s house in Dimock on SR 3023 and call him or contact him for a phone no. and he’s on facebook.

          do you have the guts to see the evidence…?

          or want to play this denial game…..

          those who hate Truth , will avoid the evidence ….

      • their water has been tested many times and still tested every week or so by Cabot and

        and DEP has loads of testing showing the negative impacts. to Dimock and Lenox water wells…

        ask for the testing ; it’s public information; can do a Right to Know..

        all you can do is defame us and it shows how weak your position is….

    • Gee, Vera, I only see data on ONE well. Where is the data on the hundreds and thousands of other wells that you “environmentalists” claim have been permanently damaged? Seems by the number of times you have posted on Vic’s blog, you are becoming unglued. That is a good thing. Lastly, why do you still live among all that pollution, death, and degradation that you constantly complain about? Why not come up to frack – free NY where poverty is king if you’re a farmer or landowner?

      • Frank
        The only thing these activists seem to fear is being left out of the camera’s view, a dead mic like the time Mark Ruffalo cut me off as I spoke in favor of fracking, or when Josh Fox pointed us out in NYC when attending Gasland II at the Tribecca Thearter. The truth is all a liar fears

  3. I’d like to know where Ms. Scoggins receives her income from and who is her ‘sponsor’? If anyone ‘cherry-picks their answers and comments it is her! It is too late for her but read and try to comprehend the studies and literature available from Penn State and other institutes of learning. As far as accessing Gov. Cuomo and his pronouncements he is strictly a ‘political animal’ and does not have any intellectual basis on his ‘against everything’ attitude that so called ‘progressives’ spew out. Actually they are ‘re-gressives’.

    • the jury in Federal Court found Cabot responsible for negligence and nuisance in developing their gas wells near the Ely’s and lost the case in this regard.

      and Cabot and Elys took months to come to an agreement for monetary restitution…it is done now and the Elys have a gag-order like most others to keep the info from the public what Cabot has had to pay for restitution….

      • I don’t have a gag order Vera. It was asked at the Elys vs Cabot law suit under oath about all the symptoms of rashes, nose bleeds, fainting spells and shower burns from chemicals supposedly suffered by the Ely children “had the parents ever taken those children to seek medical help”.? Under oath Mr Ely said no! In fact Dr. Theo Them interviewed on wnbf1290 stated as medical director of Pennsylvania Gunthrie Clinic located in the heart of drilling country, that no one in the first 6 years of drilling never came to the hospital with any complaints listed in the fiction called ([“”LIST OF THE HARMED””])

  4. Interesting. I have seen antifracking and pipe!ine activists and orgs misinforming the public , reporter and politicians for years, groups lying under oath or about their numbers of members to federal agencies and much more. They don’t appear to engage ethically in any of the public processes and forums they participate in.

  5. what is the actual names of the Student contacts and name of their group that sponsored this discussion?

    you still haven’t answered my query about this…

    so, I can only surmise that this discussion did not happen

    and was only in the imagination of Vic Furman…

    Since when, is Vic some kind of expert about these issues and he doesn’t even live in the gas fields or come to see any of our documentation…

    • Poor little Vera needs her fix and didn’t get invited to the party.
      I bet if there was a vomitorium gathering she’d have been there

    • Vera: Rest assured that the college activity that Mr. Furman wrote about did take place. Old August was there and I saw it all. The days of lying and leading the news media by the nose are slowly coming to and end as are your huge checks from the Park Foundation.

    • Vera, what are the actual names of the folks from NRDC, 350.0rg, Park Foundation, Heinz Foundation, and all the other people who write your talking points and pay for your travels?

  6. re: Dimock water pollution:
    “In 2009, Craig Sautner of Dimock Pennsylvania, who then lived on Carter Road claimed his water well was polluted with hundreds of chemicals by Cabot Oil and Gas when they fracked a well near his property.”

    In 2009 MANY residents of Carter rd reported that water that had once been clear and drinkable was now fizzy. DEP stepped in and found Cabot’s gas extraction activities had polluted the Dimock aquifer.

    The TRUTH is left out and replaced w/a strawman claim, I can find no evidence the Sautners claimed “hundreds of chemicals” or that fracking alone caused the pollution. DO have evidence of that?

    “the driller hit a shallow pocket of biogenic gas ”
    That is incorrect. Duke/EPA found the gas was thermogenic. “the Duke study showed that the chemical “fingerprint” of methane in shallow water wells near the gas sites was the same as the natural gas extracted from deep underground.
    The EPA PowerPoint presentation identified five wells contaminated with methane whose chemical fingerprint, or isotopic composition, was the same as methane from the Marcellus shale formation at the center of Pennsylvania’s natural gas boom.”

    re; your contention that the gas was always in their water wells and these people are lying – all residents had predrill testing showing no hydrocarbons. Do you know why that proves your claim (and Cabot’s claim) false?

    “The brown jug is nothing more the a prop used by litigants in lawsuits”
    What a shame to lie to students. YOU could have taught them about the facts of the Cabot Consent Orders, the ATSDR findings, etc. Where you just not aware of these facts, Mr. Furman?

    https://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/HAC/pha/DimockGroundwaterSite/Dimock_Groundwater_508.pdf

    • thanks, Dan, for giving more evidence of what is happening in my county;
      Vic is aware but he prefers like Tom to twist the facts and make us into liars so they can promote their agenda of gas development in NY and Wayne County, Pa..
      But with all their efforts of hiding the truth and putting us down, they have yet to get their lands developed and get the money they may dream about;
      The Landowners Coalition could have leased their lands in Broome County but their greed wanted more than offered and they kept waiting until the Gas Industry pulled out
      and also found out there isn’t much profitable gas in Broome County and Wayne County.

      Dimock is still under a 9 sq. mile DEP Order to keep out further drilling and fracking since the water got infused with methane and other elements.

      While we write, Parrish, the company in South Montrose in my county that works for Cabot installing their water buffaloes and filtration sheds is installing a group of them in the northeastern part of my county because of pipeline contamination of the water.
      Pipelines, too, cause contamination of water, not just the drilling and fracking..

      When your water turns to dark brown and you can’t use it, it’s the worst feeling in the world; when you can’t trust your water any longer.
      You can imagine it, unless it happens to you.
      Ken Morcom and others dealing with water issues for several years and it hasn’t been fixed…

        • Yes, people who say these victims are lying are twisting the truth.

          Tom, The ATSDR report released in 2016 using the same data set from 2012 found pollution. MANY families in Dimock were upset with the EPA’s use of a smaller data set.

          Also- Energy in Depth was set up as a propaganda arm of the IPAA: EnergyInDepth.org: a state of the art online resource
          center to combat new environmental regulations,
          especially with regard to hydraulic fracturing. ” To effect opinion in support of low regulation for the industry. Basic astroturf.

          • Hopeforpeace Dan, whatever your calling YOURSELF please find just one article on Tom Shepstones or EID’s website researched by either where the facts are false…just one

      • Yes, well said. I’ve been researching the topic for a few years, you raised good points. I’ve spoken to many resident after their water turned, it’s a very difficult situation for people. Esp when the operator chooses to call them liars, as Cabot has in this case.

      • Thanks Dan… who’s pretending Dan isn’t Hopeforpeace huh Vera, your very own friend and colleuge in Gaslies. And San aka hope, one of the very first thing I told the students not written here in this blog that [ I ] as in Victor Furman, do not deny their were problems with drilling in Montrose Pa, there were, but these problems were greatly exaggerated in favor of the anti activist. I gave them the example of you and the front page of the Binghamton Press, standing with the manning claiming an algae plume in Snake Creek was from fracking then 3 days later after getting national attention testing showed that’s all it was an algae plume but that story was a 2 sentence retraction never getting the tv or paper coverage the accusation got

    • DAN Harwig your link doesnt open even after copying and pasting into my tool bar.
      I was at the EPA hearings in Binghamton when Greg Saunter brought the Brown jug [untested] and made the claims that 500 chemicals were in his water from fracking, a process of drilling not yet done near his home. I saw the Bill Board he was forced to remove from the business that ordered it removed listing the 500 chemicals in Montrose rte29 near his Dimock Residence and then placed on the roof of his home. I saw the Video Vera Scoggins posted when the EPA gave him the good news there was no fracking chemicals in his now tested water well. I saw the Video of him drawing clear water from his water faucet in his home for Phelim MaCallier producing http://www.fracknation.com and heard Craig state he has Brown water jugs stored in his garage because “imy faucet doesn’t always produce it, it’s sporadic ” and he could never produce it for cameras. I visited Sautners neighbors and I learned and agree their were problems caused by the force of a biogenetic pocket of gas that agitated and increased the volume of natural gas in the water wells. The increased gas in the well was mitigated with the simple application of adding a well vent because natural gas and water don’t mix. The sediments settled back to the bottom of the well in days. Once again the accusations of fracking causing water pollution problems in Dimock PA were misleading and false as fracking, done to complete a gas well, had not yet been done

      • Vic, the link is obviously to the ATSDR fact sheet on DImock pollution from 2016, have you not read it?

        ” Levels in 27 private water wells were high enough to affect health. Chemicals detected above health-based comparison levels include arsenic, cadmium, copper, iron, lead, lithium, manganese, potassium, and sodium.
        4-chlorophenyl-phenyl ether was also detected in private water wells”

        I would think if you are teaching students that the DImock case was a fraud, you’d have read up on the facts.

        Feel free to comment on that ATSDR finding first. It does not fit your narrative. If the link does not work for you search “ATSDR Dimock”.

        Your hearsay means nothing, esp. when you seem to have done no actual research on the case. Many of the DImock victims were upset with the EPA because, as the ATSDR report shows, the water really was still polluted.
        Phelim Mcaleer is known to have gotten his interviews using specious claims about who he was, he then twisted the Sautner interview to frame the Sautners as liars…. much like you are doing.

        Mr. Furman, in your description to the students – you leave the entirely of facts about the DEP consent orders, EPA testing that did find pollutants, the number of victims involved, the ATSDRs findings OUT of your story – again, I ask you WHY??

        “biogenetic ”
        As I said and gave citation for, the gas the Dimock’s water wells was isotopically tested and found to be THERMOGENIC .. so if you then claim again it was biogenic, you prove you have no real evidence to back up your claims. Sad that you misinform young people.

        Also – are you aware of the case that was worsened in 2012 AFTER fracking ALONE occurred? The Marcom case?

        If you choose to reply, please respond to the actual points I’ve raised one by one. Thank you.

        • I don’t want an arranged pick up of samples I want to have written permission to show up at any date at a reasonable hour unannounced to take samples my self w here you and my camera can record it together

      • Craig Sautner never said anything about 500 chemicals..
        And your memory is worse than ever..

        He was forced to remove a billboard because it was on a pro-gassers property and the billboard was owned by a pro-gasser..

        Your usual incorrect information..

        Prove anything you just wrote..

        DEP AND Craig only alleged the gas drilling polluted the water and not fracking..

        Get the facts straight..

    • Dan/Hope/Jan or whatever name you want to use this week on this forum: Let’s remind the folks at home about a few facts regarding water supplies in PA: I’ve mentioned the USGS study of water in Pike County, PA to you before: Senior, L.A., and Cravotta, C.A., III, 2017: Baseline assessment of groundwater quality in Pike County, Pennsylvania, 2015: U.S. Geological Survey Scientific Investigations Report 2017–5110, available at https://pubs.er.usgs.gov/publication/sir20175110.

      A few highlights: The Devonian-age Marcellus Shale and the Ordovician-age Utica Shale, which have the potential for natural gas development, underlie Pike County and neighboring counties in northeastern Pennsylvania. In 2015, the U.S. Geological Survey, in cooperation with the Pike County Conservation District, conducted a study that expanded on a previous more limited 2012 study to assess baseline shallow groundwater quality in bedrock aquifers in Pike County prior to possible extensive shale-gas development. Seventy-nine water wells ranging in depths from 80 to 610 feet were sampled during June through September 2015 to provide data on the presence of methane and other aspects of existing groundwater quality in the various bedrock geologic units throughout the county, including concentrations of inorganic constituents commonly present at low values in shallow, fresh groundwater but elevated in brines associated with fluids extracted from geologic formations during shale-gas development.”

      Results of the 2015 study show that groundwater quality generally met most drinking-water standards for constituents and properties included in analyses, but groundwater samples from some wells had one or more constituents or properties, including arsenic, iron, manganese, pH, bacteria, sodium, chloride, sulfate, total dissolved solids, and radon-222, that did not meet (commonly termed failed or exceeded) primary or secondary maximum contaminant levels (MCLs) or Health Advisories (HA) for drinking water.

      extracts:

      Total arsenic concentrations greater than Health Advisory (HA) levels in 13 of 79 wells.
      Total iron particulates: exceed HA levels in 35 of 79 wells.
      Total dissolved iron concentration exceeds HA in 8 of 79 wells.
      Total manganese exceeded HA levels in 13 of 79 wells.
      Dissolved sodium concentrations exceeded HAs in 15 of 79 wells.
      Radon-222 exceeded proposed drinking water standards in 60 of 79 wells.

      And let’s remember that this is from “the baseline assessment of groundwater quality in Pike County prior to gas-well development”

      In other words, even in places where no natural gas development has taken place, the water doesn’t meet safety standards. Neither you or Vera seem to care about that.

      • this only makes sense to you, Barry.

        But when we have pre-tests in my county and then after gas drilling the numbers go higher and even double or more,
        then our DEP considers this an impact to our water.

        But it sounds like you probably consider yourself more knowledgeable than the DEP . They should consider hiring you as the next DEP Secretary
        and you can institute your vast knowledge of PA. water and
        what would constitute an impact after drilling.

        So, what would you consider an impact to our water after gas drilling
        or do you consider it possible to have any impacts,
        since you seem to have a view of gas drilling as an innocent activity that we need not be concerned about at all…?

        Interesting, that you don’t mention “methane” in your list ….

  7. http://www.coal-seam-gas.com/usa/billboard.htm#.Wrc1zGEpDxA

    In this post is the billboard on the Sautners home roof. It list the chemicals and tells the story about the 3 year activism and the artist who made the billboard. My memory is not so bad as yours Vera and if I were to put up a bill board on my roof and invite the press and Hollywood actors like Mark Ruffalo for photo oops with the poster, wether or not I read the list I am suggesting it’s there.#releaseyourvideo

  8. I wonder why Hope For Peace aka Dan Harwig has to use fake names. Anyhow the chemicals she listed that was supposedly in Sautners water, like arsenic and copper, are not even used in the fracking process. Let’s not forget about the frivolous claim of weapons grade uranium that Sautner and Kemble both claimed was in their water. Anyone with any common sense knows that uranium has to be processed to become weapons grade. Lastly they only use a few chemicals, say 8 to 10 from a list of 100’s, in the fracturing process for each well not hundreds in each well. It’s sounds as though Jan aka Hope For Peace aka Dan Harwick hasn’t done her research very well.

    • None of them are fake names.
      Tom smears people for a living, it’s just another smear.

      Dan always was a real person, Tom just refused to admit his mistake.
      Hope Forpeace is the name I’ve used for 10 years, it’s a pseudonym.
      I always use it. Everyone who knows me, knows me by that name.

      If I’d wanted to be deceptive, I’d have posted under Jan Lemas, as no one would know who that was.

      https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCSI0KHKPzuQ8wa2O-cwB9CQ

      Instead of holding the company who polluted these people’s water supply accountable, the purpose of this blog and gas industry propaganda is to blame the victims. If any victim uses a phrase wrongly, that means they made the whole pollution case up so they could get some big payout.

      Cabot bought the Sautners house, demolished it, sold the land to a neighbor with the agreement no house can be built there and locked off the water well.

      Does that sound like the house just had a little naturally occurring methane like all the other houses in the neighborhood did (according to Cabot and Tom)?

        • Resorting again to answering posts not addressed to you?

          “Note the four Kemble uranium test results indicate levels were from 29.92 to 29.99 µg/L” you claimed

          – when I said specifically “I can’t name whose water well is which .. that’s private information.”

          And when I do work hard to present valid information, you just spin and misuse it for your own propaganda.

          >>>> I’m not about to do the same thing again and expect a different result.” <<<<<<

          Not a reader, Tom,?
          How about YOU answer ANY of the valid questions I've raised.

          I've waited years.

      • Nice try at obfuscation, DanJanHope. Never saw a thread like this on here before. You and Vera must be going nuts over the thought that the students a BU are going to be finding out the truth behind all the outright lies and hyper – exaggerations by Vera, Craig, Ray, B. Huston and Josh Pinocchio Fox. How about a documentary film about the whole tawdry mess? Now that would put the nail in the coffin of those Park Foundation pay checks to you all.

  9. My personal opinion on and experience with the entire Dimock matter; there was an awful lot of deceit practiced by a fair number of people to attain their ultimate goal which surely included monetary reparations, that is sadly the American way. Water wells were intentionally pumped dry. Young children, “celebrities”, older citizens, etc., all used as visual props to advance a cause. Falsehoods created to support a personal agenda, the ATSDR report being a prime example. Read it closely, see the footnotes of the potential source of various exotic chemicals and compounds found in the water (forget the naturally occurring existing substances), practices such as open burn pits, private dumps, both regular behavior in rural PA. What I do not believe is all the hype and hyperbole surrounding the entire matter. I spent a lot of my former work time responding to a core group of persistent complainers chasing down their reported ghosts and goblins, wasted time that cost the taxpayers of PA money.

    • Thank you for that post. Our side to is not perfect but our imperfections are not intentional.. so many issues are left out on the water test. Like the neighborhood junkyard leeching fuel, oil and antifreeze into the ground for years, the 3000 gallon spill on the Meshoppin Road Creek of heating oil, and as mentioned un regulated ceptics close to water wells loaded with household chemicals used to clean like iron out, Draino, mop n glow, whatever else dumped Down the drains, once again I am not saying their are no problems with drilling but Vera, NYRAD, and Hollywood, turned a minute, mitigatable problem into a national crisis through lies, fame, and treachery such as that seen in Gasland 1 & 2

    • ” the potential source… practices such as open burn pits, private dumps, both regular behavior in rural PA.”

      Yes, they are. If these caused pollution of aquifers, the occurrence would be widespread. Is it?

  10. “Dan uses the same IP address as Jan Lemas, who previously pretended for the longest time to be “Hope Forpeace.”

    Dan called you, Tom, days ago. And wrote you regarding who he is and why he uses the AK Production’s IP address. He invited you to call him, which you did not do. You didn’t return his email either.

    You should have corrected you mistake.

    You required he share Ray Kemble’s test results before you allow him, or me, to comment here further. would be illegal obviously, test results are private.

    I would guess this comment will not be posted since we’ve not met your demands

    Yet I’ll write it and document it as further evidence that the pro-gas argument is rarely about facts, but always a smear, a personal attack, a shoot the messenger strategy that is typical for the type of propaganda you post here.

    I’ve no problem posting using the name I was known by 10 years ago. If I’d wanted to “hide” as you accuse me of, I would have posted under Jan Lemas, as no one would have known who that is (though since I bring up valid arguments you can’t answer, you likely would have looked up THAT name and said I was hiding behind it.). Since everyone knows me, and I use professionally Hope Forpeace, people know me by that name. Your silliness says a lot about your reporting.

    Now, I have an offer for you.

    Instead of hashing out discussion in comment sections, I challenge you to discuss your positions, such as that the methane in the Dimock aquifer was always there, that these victims are lying, making up their pollution to get payouts from industry in an article here, well cited and give me the opportunity to present the well cited facts that disagree.

    You could even do a follow up on Vic’s claim here that gas that was tested and found to be isotopic was from a biogenic “bubble” just under the surface.

    Or – we could each write a 4 paragraph summary of the Dimock water pollution case including citation. Lets have an online debate on these topic.

    Here’s a peek at your Dimock coverage:
    The Three Stooges Return to Do Stupid Frack Trick in Dimock?
    Dimock Junkyard Plaintiff Ray Kemble Stars in “Pigs to Rigs – Act II”
    Dimock Fractivists Do Weapons Grade Deflection and Obfuscation
    The “Tragic” Performances That Led to the Dimock Verdict
    Bad Guys Win in Dimock Despite Evidence and Timeline

    Since I am personally attacked in some of those articles, it would seem appropriate to allow me the chance to debate these facts in the open.

    Your refusal will stand as further proof you have no real evidence for your position that victims in Dimock are liars, the methane in their water was always there and they made the whole thing up to steal money from industry.

    I’ll even use Jan Lemas as the byline to make you happy.

    • Go for it. I said you could comment under your real name. I note, for starters, though, that you are quite incorrect about sharing test results. Nothing whatsoever is stopping Ray from sharing his results. I accept that you can’t do so without his permission but apparently you have it as Dan (or was it you, using his name and IP?) seemed to quote part of them. No one can share results without the landowner’s permission but why should that be an obstacle here? You are adamant in defending Ray and asserting all kinds, so provide the evidence by sharing the full results.

      • 1. “as Dan (or was it you, using his name and IP?) seemed to quote part of them.”

        Dan is working on a companion book to the film we have coming out this summer, which covers how facts about fracking related pollution are presented to Uni students, that’s how he came across Vic’s claims .. and found it very strange that a former DEP employee who signs determination letters would be commenting in that way publicly. So, keep claiming I am Dan, or I am Hope and just a useful idiot, it will only make you look silly.

        2. You refuse to have a real debate, got it.
        3. Where did you see Dan quote Ray’s testing?
        4. How is posting under a name no one knows me by MORE transparent?

      • Oh, just thought of this – here is a video where I do on film show some of Ray’s testing for the camera. It’s his predrill test that shows no methane in his water. I can provide you a copy.

        Do you understand how that refutes your claim the methane was pre-existing and these people are just making it up? Let me know, I can help you with that.

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNrh1KsGXa0

        (on the channel I’ve posted under using the name Hope Forpeace since 2009)

      • Also, I have shown you testing before – original DEP testing showing high levels of Uranium in the water, for doing that work, you insulted me, took everything I said out of context and used my honesty as a tool to smear me with. Anything I say here can and will be used against me by your smear machine here, no manner of testing I’ve presented to you thus far has done you or the conversation any good.

        “Note the four Kemble uranium test results indicate levels were from 29.92 to 29.99 µg/L” you claimed
        – when I said specifically “I can’t name whose water well is which .. that’s private information.”

        • I assume Ray, like other homeowners, got a letter(s) specific to his results. So, encourage him to simply release the data and let it speak for itself. It’s easy. I’m certainly not afraid of seeing what the agencies said. Let the chips fall where they may.

          • Again, as it always is when I try to discuss these matter with you Tom, there are many many points I made in those comments you obviously ignored. I can only guess now that you have no evidence for your claims, or you would have presented it.

            “Note the four Kemble uranium test results indicate levels were from 29.92 to 29.99 µg/L” you claimed
            – when I said specifically “I can’t name whose water well is which .. that’s private information.”

            And when I do work hard to present valid information, you just spin and misuse it for your own propaganda. I’m not about to do the same thing again and expect a different result.

            So far agencies have said the Dimock aquifer was polluted by drilling and fracking related extraction activities. You know that.
            When any agency says something like this: “ATSDR found that some chemicals found in private water wells at this site are
            a concern. Levels in 27 private water wells were high enough to affect health.
            Chemicals detected above health-based comparison levels include arsenic,
            cadmium, copper, iron, lead, lithium, manganese, potassium, and sodium.
            4-chlorophenyl-phenyl ether was also detected in private water wells; however,
            there is not enough information on the toxicology of this chemical to determine its
            potential for adverse health effects.
            Methane levels in 17 private water wells could be a physical hazard.
            ATSDR concluded that for these and other private water wells, levels were high
            enough to make the water unsuitable for drinking” .. you simply say ALL the pollutants found by testing has nothing to do with drilling or Cabot – as you ignore predrill testing that found NONE of those constituents before drilling/fracking occurred.

            The 9 mile moratorium stays in place because levels have no yet returned to normal according to Collen Connoly.

            If you where brave enough to have an online debate with me on these topics, I could give you further information. You won’t, I think you can’t.

            You are a propagandist for Cabot dressed as a regular guy .. who likes the little 5th grade polemic that festers here.

          • I’m not interested in your interpretation of facts, Jan; just the facts. So, if you have letters and results from ATSDR and/or DEP, just share them. I’m not afraid of seeing them. Lay it on the line.

    • The fact that you had to resort to using fake names speaks volumes about the validity of anything that you would say. Once credibility is lost, it is gone forever no matter how many excuses and lies one uses to in the futile attempt to erase them.

      • The fact you can’t figure out by now there where no fake names speaks volumes about the validity of anything that you would say.

        • “The fact you can’t figure out by now there where no fake names speaks volumes about the validity of anything that you would say.”

          And Frank goes on to prove me correct.

  11. Dan, Jan, Hope whoever this may concern
    Data is data and only as valuable as the interpretation it projects. I certainly am no expert on scientific studies but I have an invaluable sense self awareness and am somewhat capable of evaluating sources and content. I have been in this debate since 2008 and have read the science from many sources. I still do not claim to be an expert just somewhat more informed then the average citizen concerning gas drilling. Hopeforpeace,Jan,Dan whatever your name is a debate between any of us on gas migration, well test results, the Brown water jug would only be a waste of time. Each of us claiming our sources a winner. If gas didn’t exsist in Pa, mainly Montrose and Dimock township then please explain to me why resident of Dimock have been claiming flaming water since the 50s, actually talking about setting the water on fire in Montrose Schools drinking fountains for fun decades before gas drilling. Explain to me why a trailer park was forced to close down because of high levels of methane in the water supply back in the 1990s? Tell me why Salt Springs State Park has a worldwide reputation for a flaming water? PRETESTING FOR GAS actually means very little depending on the level of the water aquifer at the time of testing. The EPA tested Dimock Water Wells, 161 I believe, and fond them to contain no frack fluids declaring them safe for consumption. NY tested I believe 180 wells no where near fracking and found 80 of those wells had enough gas to light the water on fire as the gas escaped. I know this is a lot of reading put it drives home the same but different results.

    https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://marcellusdrilling.com/2016/03/dimock-trial-lighting-tap-water-on-fire-decades-before-drilling/&ved=0ahUKEwicuYnx5pLaAhXB7YMKHSSFDroQFghLMAo&usg=AOvVaw1_D0gfo7jr1sGc8EvwqTB-

    https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://weather.com/health/news/methane-in-drinking-water-unrelated-to-fracking&ved=2ahUKEwjEkcbe55LaAhVKyYMKHaiRB6s4ChAWMAJ6BAgIEAE&usg=AOvVaw09NrQoSCuFEGJqEOe6k_P6

    https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2015/03/methane-drinking-water-unrelated-fracking-study-suggests&ved=2ahUKEwjjpqjK6ZLaAhXE7YMKHV74B18QFjAHegQIABAB&usg=AOvVaw2lNghAEyA1c6CWckHSHabW

    https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/294563631861010869/&ved=2ahUKEwio1N6a6pLaAhUDxYMKHepxChc4HhAWMAd6BAgCEAE&usg=AOvVaw3tV9fhB1b9WKZuET4apa4Z

    • 1. naturally occurring methane
      2. stray gas migration: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pneFJMHA1tw

      These are two different things. You should learn the difference between the two.

      We know DImock is a case of methane migration because residents had predrill testing showing no methane.

      “PRETESTING FOR GAS actually means very little depending on the level of the water aquifer at the time of testing.”
      Offer evidence that aquifer levels effect predrill testing for a large group .. go ahead.

      Remember – when you say their water was always polluted, you are saying all the Dimock victims are liars. Are you calling Loren Salzman a liar, too? “There was some methane migration when they drilled the well up on the hill” he says: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9lJL1OJ0X44

      You’re also calling DEP. EPA and ATSDR liars, as their testing did find many pollutants.

      Also remember, isotopic testing showed this gas is isotopic .. refute that.

      • DanJanHope – Check out what Dr. Theodore Them of the Guthrie Clinic, who is a physician in the Occupational Medicine Dept., has to say about you and Vera’s delusion – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20M-IbhOGDg&t=30s and this radio show by Cornell professors Dr. Lawrence Cathles, Dr. Larry Brown, and Dr. Andrew Hunter about your clown “scientists” Bob Howarth and Anthony Ingraffea whose insane claim that nat gas is dirtier than coal – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n5elleYzaRE&t=3s The media is in so deep with all the lies and subterfuge it’s disgusting that these Cornell PhDs and Dr. Them are ignored by them.

      • Jan Lemas
        I remember this video very well, thanks for posting. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9lJL1OJ0X44
        What I see in this Video is Loren saying that he had methane in his water in 1995, well before gas drilling in 2008. He then admits due to a poor cementing there was an increase in N-gas but when the cement on the casing was fixed the levels soon were mitigated. In 2009 I personally went and visited the 13 homes on Carter rd, and Mishoppen Creek. All but the Sautners talked with me. Could you please provide me with a link to Dukes study about the gas being thermogenetic not bio genetic. I will be meeting with other students and I would like to be sure I have it right.

        Back to my 2009 visit to Dimock. There were as I am sure your aware 2 water wells on Loren’s property, one dug in the early 50s, that was so foul a new well was Doug to service the house. Both wells had methane levels that were known. Loren, who I believe is an environmental engineer, explained to me that when that pocket of gas was disrupted and migrated, the reason only 13 homes out of 27 were effected is because they ran along a ground fault that ran pararell with the creek. And let’s get one thing straight. Your charge that I am calling everyone who claims problems with their water a liar is preposterous and insulting.what hurts your cause is those kind of accusations, along with weapons grade uranium, nose bleeds, rashes, and fainting spells, two headed goats, birds with diarrhea and so many more such fables. Please provide a medical report [go ahead end block out HIPPA violations] showing just one who suffered these terrible afflictions.

        • Loren says the levels where mitigated. If they had been the DEP moratorium would have been lifted. Loren also forgets all about the DEP case when he speaks in Fracknation, which paints real water pollution victims as liars and leaves ALL Of the facts about the Consent Orders, DEP testing out.

          Nice that you understand that a rise in methane levels means stray gas, not naturally occurring. You should use that fact more in your arguments.

          “thermogenetic not bio genetic.”
          BIOGENIC, Vic.
          DEP did isotopic testing. Did you not know that? Did you need me to go find the evidence for you? Let me know – you can also look up the Hanger meeting at the church, I was just reviewing it, Hanger details the findings about 1/2 way through his talk.

          YOU visited Ray? Victoria? Bill E? I doubt it Vic.

          Vic – the citation you provided above to cite your claim, was re: methane already in water .. and I have often heard you claim many of the Dimock victims are lying. You also said: “Explain to me why a trailer park was forced to close down because of high levels of methane in the water supply back in the 1990s? Tell me why Salt Springs State Park has a worldwide reputation for a flaming water? ”
          Me reminding you that when you make that argument – the water always had methane as if THAT was the DImock issue, you ARE calling these victims liars.

          also – you never answered;

          “PRETESTING FOR GAS actually means very little depending on the level of the water aquifer at the time of testing.”
          Offer evidence that aquifer levels effect predrill testing for a large group .. go ahead.

          ” … two headed goats, birds with diarrhea and so many more such fables” what hurts your cause is those kinds of silly claims.

          I’ve explained the uranium thing ad nauseam, as long as y’all can frame these victims as liars and frauds, bad people .. y’all seem to have a lot of fun here, no one can disabuse you of the need it seems. Symptoms like bloody noses, rashes, passing out in the shower are typical of methane contact … did you not know that either? Like Phelim you demand a Dr’s note .. if I brought one you’d find a way to spin and dismiss it.

          • A REAL ESTATE agent is now an expert on natural gas and how high volume hydraulic fracturing is done LOL!!!! – https://www.zillow.com/profile/janlemas/ Where does Vera dig you people up from? Does Vera share her Park Foundation checks with you or does Park also have you on their payroll? I see you’re from California. Are you enjoying yourself turning PA and NY farmers into paupers and stealing their mineral rights using massive exaggeration and outright lies to get your way? It is so obvious by the length and number of your and Vera’s posts that you are both beside yourselves now knowing the JLC is in Binghamton University and plan on branching out to other colleges as well. Cuomo’s mineral rights theft will not stand indefinitely.

          • Yes I have just watched your guru on you tube. Get of the liar boat; it sunk a long time ago. Yes I have been to the homes of many in Dimock. Are you a friend of Victoria’s? Ask her about our interactions. Ask her how I thanked her for her Grace, her tone, and her testimony. Had others followed her example then believability would have been risen to the surface. Again I dont call people liars… until now

  12. “I’m not interested in your interpretation of facts, Jan; just the facts. So, if you have letters and results from ATSDR and/or DEP, just share them. I’m not afraid of seeing them. Lay it on the line.”

    Your antiquated commenting system often DROPS the reply button.

    Did you think I work at ATSDR and wrote the ATSDR findings I posted to you?

    What is your science background that you think you know more about this science than say Halverson, Markowitz – scientists working at ATSDR ??

    Hide behind your demand I give you private testing, it’s an obvious cover.

    1. Not my testing to post to you.
    2. When I’ve shared testing with you in the past you have misused it.

    But feel free to use the excuse to fail to offer any evidence for your claims, seems all you have left.

    • “There are piles of evidence of methane in the aquifer before drilling was ever even dreamed of in Susquehanna County, starting with the ability to light Salt Springs on fire.” Tom

      Tom, You should finally offer a well cited argument for your claims about Dimock. I’ve asked many times over many years , it’s telling you can’t.

      You know about predrill tests showing no methane in Dimock resident’s water.
      You know the gas is thermogenic.
      You know you are calling all the victims, DEP, EPA, ATSDR liars when you make the claim their water was always polluted.

      Yet, 9 years after the contamination, you still claim it was all naturally occurring .. why do you have no evidence to support that??

      Maybe you have a deeper, more well reasoned argument about Dimock’s water pollution, I’ve never heard you give it.

      • Just supply the DEP and ATSDR test results I’m sure you have seen and probably have in your possession, Jan. There’s no point in arguing about all this if you won’t supply what you’ve seem to claim to have seen.

  13. (again no reply button)
    Vic:
    ” I dont call people liars”

    These examples took me 4 minutes to find, you call all of us liars frequently.
    ” Two families from Dimock, Pennsylvania are suing Cabot Oil & Gas with in hopes of a big payoff from pretending what is a natural condition is somehow will look like gas drilling negligence to others.”
    “Who knows what drives these people, beyond the obvious desire of some to simply cash in?”
    https://naturalgasnow.org/dimock-now-media-clowns/

    “Craig continues with his own brown jugging schtick,”
    “This is what we have come to expect from fractivists such as Craig Stevens who are in the service of trial lawyers hoping to find new class action lawsuit prospects. ”
    https://naturalgasnow.org/fractivist-hippycrites-cry-dimock-one-more-time/

    “For them, it’s all about anecdotes, movie claims, junk science, brown jugs, falsified claims, “truth tours” conducted by fantastic liars, subsidies and fear. ”
    https://naturalgasnow.org/top-10-reasons-fractivists-losing-fracking-war/

  14. (Again .. no reply button)

    Your Guru Speaks … you post, Vic.

    What cracks me up Vic, is instead of having a well cited argument, you have to smear me personally in some way. My guess is you have no well cited argument.

    If the rev had advocated for violence, I would not support that … calling him my Guru just makes you look silly.

    But he did not advocate for violence … feel free to reply with the line you think was advocating for violence. CFACT is not reliable.

    Also – just ran across this as I was researching the film: “Based on the existing geochemical data set, we can conclude that the origin of the stray gases detected in the Florentino and Sautner water wells is thermogenic in origin, consistent with natural gas from Devonian production. The gas found in these water wells is not consistent with microbial gas that occurs in some shallow aquifer systems. — Fred Baldassare, P.G. Geologist Department of Environmental Protection” that’s from the Hopey FOIA archive

    • Hey Jan I get it…your against fossil fuels but continue to use them, to me… the biggest lie followed by… we have no choice’ You’re an expert at finding science written by people with your mindset making it easy to cite them, .I stand by everything I have written with the use of my real name. I won’t be replying to your post remarks here anymore simply because you haven’t learned anything from it but chose to defend against it. That and I am preparing for another invite at another university.
      GOD BLESS… HAPPY EASTER

      • Vic – the facts I posted have nothing to do with my opinions.

        You have no evidence to post in support of your claims ..

        why should you go on misinforming unsuspecting Uni students?

        Where’s your evidence the gas was biogenic? Loren told you so?

        • DanJanHope – Still at it I see. You and Vera must be going berserk over the fact that the JLCNY is now in the universities. Tough. It is long overdue. I bet these students are like sponges soaking in all the FACTS and none of the garbage that you and Vera have been spreading. Have you ever asked Vera why she, Ray, and Craigy still live among all the pollution and devastation around Dimock’s “poisoned air and water” and all that? I have probably asked her 10 times and she is still refuses to answer. That speaks volumes about the lies and deceit being spread by you folks. Wouldn’t it be great if the JLCNY did a documentary showing all the lies and huge exaggerations that the media and your ilk has spread about drilling? Who knows…….

          • Let me help, Frank.

            Dan is my partner. He called Tom on the phone to talk with Tom about Tom’s accusations. Tom refused to speak with him and refused to clarify the mistake he made here, saying I am Dan. Tom was so eager to smear me, it may not have occurred to him many people can use the same IP address.

            I changed my name by use 10 years ago, everyone knows me by Hope Forpeace. If I post under Hope Forpeace, most people interested in fracking have seen that name and know who I am.

            If I post under the name I used 10 years ago, Jan Lemas no one will know who I am .. but Tom says it adds to clarity.

            You could have gotten that far just by reading my replies, you should do that now if you plan to reply to this comment.

            I have a problem with University students being lied to. The story Vic told them about Dimock is a lie.

            He left out the entirety of the case – the consent orders, the number of victims, the EPA’s, DEPs and ATSDR’s findings of chemical pollution. The gas was not biogenic, it was thermogenic (a word Vic could not even spell correctly).

            Well trained by Phelim and Tom, he made the victims look like liars by saying the gas was naturally occurring – impossible since predrill testing showed no hydrocarbons and many victims lived in the area decades, some for generations and never had water problems or methane in their water. When you then say the methane was always there – you are calling them liars. Which Tom et al have been doing since the Enough Already/Dimock Proud days.

            And Craig and Vera never lived near Carter rd .. and Ray is stuck there. Did you think he could sell his house w/ no water source?

            What WOULD be great is if Tom had the guts to debate this in the open. He can’t. He has no answers.

  15. Again Tom, no reply button:

    ” Jan, it’s you (and “Dan” who uses your IP address) who keep referring to ATSDR results. I’m just asking for them as you apparently have them.”

    Dan uses the AK IP address as I do .. you know that.

    The ATSDR report I obviously referred to, quoted from and linked to here is this one: “Levels in 27 private water wells were high enough to affect health. Chemicals detected above health-based comparison levels” … I quoted it and linked to it above … https://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/hac/pha/DimockGroundwaterSite/Dimock_Groundwater_Site_HC_05-24-2016_508.pdf

    Did you miss that report from 2016?

    And no, I will never share the private test results of any victim with you. I have done that. I shared private predrill testing and DEP results with you – you personally misrepresented them and used them in your own propaganda to make the victim look like a liar .. part of the job you are apparently paid to do here: https://naturalgasnow.org/dimock-fractivists-weapons-grade-deflection-obfuscation/

    hahahaha .. I just caught this: ” one hard-core fractivist by the name of Hope Forpeace (real name)” … later you said Hope Forpeace was not my real name … just can’t keep your lies straight – you should work on that .. you need seamless propaganda if you want your misinformation to be believed.

    • And so the desperation and FEAR continues due to pro – gas people getting into academia. I’ve never seen the number and length of DanJanHope’s and Vera’s posts since being on naturalgasnow for the past 5 years. Wish I could see the tops of your heads blowing off because of the fear and panic.

      • Frank,

        DO you read much? Go back and read the many comments you’re referring to.

        You’ll see I attempted a decent debate and found none here. Tom, nor you nor Vic could answer valid questions like if the natural gas is biogenic, why did it test thermogenic? I quoted a DEP scientist … Vic offers no evidence for his claims.

        If the natural gas is naturally occurring as Tom claims, why did predrill testing show no hydrocarbons?

        You see lots of comments because I keep asking this here (I have for years) and have yet get an answer.

        Do you have valid answers … you seem to have hyperbole instead.

        “Wish I could see the tops of your heads blowing off because of the fear and panic.”
        What’s interesting is how stupid your comments make you look, yet you continue to post them.

    • Vic,

      “METHANE IN PENNSYLVANIA WATER WELLS UNRELATED TO MARCELLUS SHALE FRACTURING”

      Two weeks ago I explained for you the difference between stray gas migration caused by gas drilling/fracking and naturally occurring methane. The study you posted changed neither definition.

      The gas industry’s line has always been to claim methane was in the water already, even when resident’s state and can prove the methane in their water was not there before gas drilling occurred nearby. They use the lie to screw people they pollute. I’ve explained that you many times.

      Lets try this way – imagine you worked all your life to buy a house. You lived there 20 years. Gas drilling happened 500 ft from your front door, casing went bad, your water well turned black. Imagine the company who drilled lies and says your water was always like that.

      How would you feel? They also convinced all your neighbors you are lying, causing you more stress. Then they convince your neighbors your lies are costing them money. Then your dog is poisoned and your wife leaves you, and you have to buy her out for 1/2 the value of a house you can’t sell, a house that requires water be brought in for decades. Imagine you spent the summer making snowcones for your little kids and their fiends, then you find out there was high levels of benzene in your water .. and the snowcones. Imagine that company then tells you they have the right to pollute you, cause you nuisance for as long as you own the house and there is nothing you can do about it.

      How would you feel about that Vic?

      All of those things and more have happened to water pollution victims. You and your little friends here claiming for years that the water was always polluted are complicit in the horrors visited on these victims.

        • Frank – all you have are insults.

          You’ve no answers to valid questions asked…so you are reduced to mockery.

          Sad.

          I’m not reduced to trying to find some old information on you in some silly attempt to personally attack you because I have a well researched argument I can offer about the facts.

          You should try that kind of approach. It’s not hard.

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